Transcript for Episode 29: The Living Single Girls Throw a Lesbian Bridal Shower

This is the transcript for the installment of the show in which we discuss the Living Single episode “Woman to Woman.” If you’d rather listen to Glen and Drew than read what they say, click here. The transcript was provided by Sarah Neal, whose skills we recommend wholeheartedly.

Max:  Hey! You know, I thought your fiancé was coming—or did he get smart and bail out over Lake Michigan? 

[audience laughs] 

Shayla:  Chris is parking the car. And Max, there's something I should tell you—something I should have told you a long time ago. 

Max:  Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa—did I used to date this guy? 

[audience laughs] 

Shayla:  Doubtful. 

Chris:  [sighs] A parking space opened up right out front. 

[audience audibly struggles to comprehend the presence of lesbian characters]

Chris:  Hey, guys. 

Shayla:  Everybody, meet Chris. 

[audience laughs] 

Regine:  Hey—girl. 

[audience laughs] 

["Living Single Theme Song" performed by Queen Latifah plays]

Drew:  Hello, and welcome to Gayest Episode Ever, the podcast where we talk about the LGBT-focused episodes of classic sitcoms. I'm Drew Mackie. 

Glen:  I'm Glen Lakin, and that's the first time you got it right on the first try. 

Drew:  Fuck you. If that intro did not tip you off, today we are talking about Living Single, specifically the episode "Woman to Woman," or as we're going to call it, "The Girls from Living Single Throw a Lesbian Bridal Shower," which aired—sorry—date, date, date? 

Dr. Justin:  March 21st, 1996? 

Drew:  Thank you guest, Dr. Justin. We have a special guest to discuss this episode of Living Single, Dr. Justin Young. 

Dr. Justin:  Hi. Thank you for having me on the Gayest Episode. 

Drew:  Oh, thank you for coming here. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Justin:  Is there a gay cut-off? How gay do I have to be to be—

Glen:  Well, if you look at this chart behind me—

Dr. Justin:  Oh. Okay. I was just making sure I didn't have to be the gayest gay to be on the Gayest Episode. 

Drew:  No. You just have to like a TV show. 

Dr. Justin:  Okay. Perfect. I love TV shows. 

Glen:  Have we had straights on before? 

Dr. Justin:  Oooh. 

Drew:  No. Never. 

Glen:  Oh. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh. We might have to break ground and find some. 

Glen:  Hmm—no. 

Drew:  My business partner Katherine is going to be on at some point because she wants to talk about Absolutely Fabulous. 

Glen:  Oh, that's right—which I also want to talk about, so this is allowed. 

Dr. Justin:  Oooh. Oooh! 

Glen:  Also, she's my boss [laughter]. 

Dr. Justin:  That's also a good reason to have her on. But I feel like a lot of Ab Fab episodes are gay. 

Drew:  I told her to pick one because she's the expert, and she knows more about it than I do. So she has, and that's what we're going to talk about. 

Dr. Justin:  Perfect. 

Drew:  Justin—I think you're the first person who was a guest on the movie podcast You Have to Watch this Movie who is now a guest on Gayest Episode Ever. 

Dr. Justin:  Yes!

Drew:  And as we discussed before, you are an interesting multi-hyphenate. You're a doctor. 

Dr. Justin:  Yes. 

Drew:  Filmmaker.

Dr. Justin:  Correct. 

Drew:  Voice-over artist. 

Dr. Justin:  That, too. 

Drew:  Amazing Race contestant? 

Dr. Justin:  That also is true. 

Glen:  Did you win? 

Dr. Justin:  We did not win [laughs]. But we had fun. It was a great experience. I highly recommend it. 

Drew:  I mean—

Glen:  I'm not doing it. 

Drew:  It would be very stressful. 

Dr. Justin:  You two should do it together. 

Glen:  Absolutely not. We do enough together. 

Drew:  We'd both die. Yeah. We'd both be dead. 

Dr. Justin:  Um, I don't think death is particularly involved with the show. 

Glen:  First time for everything. 

Dr. Justin:  Well, there you go—for sweeps. 

Drew:  Yeah. They'd have to cancel the entire season and be like, "Oh. We can't air that one. It's too bad those two guys died." Justin, the last time you were on one of our podcasts, you were talking about the movie you directed, which was not easily viewable online back then, but now it is. 

Dr. Justin:  Yes. It had a festival run last year, so that was exciting, and that is why it wasn't readily available. But now you can see it on Vimeo, online at thatsmeontheright.com. The movie is called That's Me On the Right. 

Glen:  That makes sense. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. You know? But yeah, it was super exciting. It was a lot of fun, and hopefully I will be making another or a bunch of others very, very soon. 

Drew:  Will they also be gay in nature—probably? 

Dr. Justin:  Actually, that's a yes. There are a couple shorts that I want to work on. There's another short that a friend wants me to direct, which I need to get back to and make sure that that happens. And then also, I've been working on a pilot that actually has a gay slant to it as well, and a feature—that's not particularly gay—

Glen:  Yet. 

Dr. Justin:  But the rest of them are. 

Drew:  You had us going there for a second, and then you kind of lost us with the not-gay part. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh. Sorry. It'll be the gayest feature ever!

Drew:  There you go. 

Glen:  Is it an allegory for homosexuality? 

Dr. Justin:  No. It's kind of like a modern-day-historical drama/heist movie, and that's all I'm going to say. 

Glen:  All right. You've said too much. I'm going to research it and find out who in it is gay. 

Dr. Justin:  Exactly. Mm-hmm. There you go [laughs]. 

Drew:  Since you're our guest, I'm going to ask you first. What was your experience with the show we're talking about this episode, Living Single? 

Dr. Justin:  I just felt like Living Single was one of those pivotal black sitcoms of the '90s. It was, I think, in a lot of ways groundbreaking, but in a way that we didn't really realize at the time—or at least I didn't notice at the time. I just thought it was a great show, and I remember watching it. I can't remember if it was before Martin or after Martin, but I felt like it was part of that contingent of black shows that Fox was kind of married to for a while. 

Drew:  Yeah. It was a nice little family of shows starting with In Living Color and branching out from there. 

Dr. Justin:  Exactly. 

Glen:  Was Roc part of this? And Roc Live?

Dr. Justin:  Oooh. Oooh! I do remember that!

Drew:  We count that as the same show. So there is a gay episode—

Dr. Justin:  Is there a gayest episode? 

Drew:  There is a gay episode of Roc. Roc's brother is gay—

Dr. Justin:  That's what I was just going to say! Roc's brother was gay. 

Glen:  We're totally talking about it. 

Drew:  And I think the brother is played by Richard Roundtree or something, and I want to do that next season. That one was brought to my attention fairly recently, but that would be a fun one to do. 

Dr. Justin:  That was an incredible show, actually, and really ahead of its time. And really, the acting on that show was pretty sublime. 

Drew:  It reminds me of this little Norman Lear revival that's happened where they feel like half-hour-long plays—like stage plays.  

Dr. Justin:  Oooh, good point. Yes. Yep. 

Drew:  Glen, what was your experience with this show? 

Glen:  I watched its first season when it was on Sundays between Martin and Married… with Children, but when it moved to Thursdays it lost out to Must See TV for me. But I would catch it every now and then in reruns on UPN—when UPN was the thing. 

Dr. Justin:  What did UPN become? 

Glen:  CW. And I remember really liking Max and not liking Synclaire. 

Drew:  Oh!

Dr. Justin:  Oooh. 

Glen:  I know. I know. 

Dr. Justin:  Why? I find that offensive, and I don't know why. But I want you to elaborate. 

Glen:  Well, Max is mean, and I liked that; Synclaire is nice, and I didn't like that, and she just felt tonally out of whack with the rest of the show for me. 

Dr. Justin:  I kind of liked how bubbly—

Drew:  Loopy.

Dr. Justin:  —and the obvious comic relief that was there for Synclaire, played incredibly by Kim Coles. But obviously, I think the strongest and the best part of that show was definitely Max, played incredibly by Erika Alexander, who—

Glen:  Cousin Pam.

Dr. Justin:  [laughs]

Drew:  Which I did not remember until Glen told me. 

Dr. Justin:  Yes!

Drew:  I did not remember that Huxtable affiliation at all. 

Dr. Justin:  I feel like there's a lot of overlap, particularly from this episode as well, because Shayla is memorable as Charmaine from A Different World and—

Glen:  Cosby Show. 

Dr. Justin:  Yes, which—

Drew:  Which we call "The Phylicia Rashad Show." 

Glen:  Mm-hmm. Whatever. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. I like that, actually. I like that. 

Drew:  "The John Goodman Show" and "The Phylicia Rashad Show." 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, my gosh. Mess. 

Drew:  Yeah. I didn't watch this show because at the point it was on—ffirst of all,I did not realize it started in 1993. I would have guessed that it started later than that—that is also important and we're going to talk about it very shortly. But at that point, I was very sensitive about watching things that were "women's entertainment" because I started to realize that that was problematic, so this was something I was scared to be seen watching. 

Glen:  Does that mean you also did not watch The Nanny? 

Drew:  We didn't have CBS. 

Glen:  Oh. 

Dr. Justin:  Wait. What? How? 

Drew:  I grew up in the country, and we didn't have cable. We just had antenna, and we were fur enough—far enough out that—

Dr. Justin:  There's that country coming out! [laughter]

Drew:  —that we just didn't get CBS there. So I didn't grow up with any CBS stuff—no Cybil, no Nanny, no Murphy Brown. This is all stuff I never experienced. 

Glen:  This is why you're a bad gay—because you didn't watch Cybil. 

Dr. Justin:  Oooh! I didn't watch Cybil. Am I excommunicated from this podcast now? 

Glen:  Nope. Now I'm going to set this room on fire. 

Dr. Justin:  I mean, I know of it. And I didn't really watch Murphy Brown either, so I don't feel like you—I know how huge Murphy Brown was. I just feel like at the age I was when it came on it just wasn't on my radar. I couldn't get into it. 

Drew:  I think Murphy Brown might have been a harder one for young kids to get into, but a lot of people really loved it growing up. 

Dr. Justin:  I feel like they were sucked into it through their parents because a lot of parents would watch it, and then that's how people would watch it. I remember trying to watch it and just not really getting it. It was a little over my head. 

Drew:  You just were like, "I don't know who Boutros Boutros-Ghali is at this point, so this joke is not funny to me." 

Glen:  You both are women haters. 

Dr. Justin:  [scandalized gasp] That's not what I said! [laughs]

Glen:  That's what I heard. 

Dr. Justin:  How is that even possible? I said Max is the best part of this show!

Drew:  I think we all agree that this show works for us pretty well, and it is mostly a woman-focused show. If you don't remember Living Single very well, it ran from August 31st, 1993, to January 1st, 1998, on Fox [for] one hundred eighteen episodes. It centered, technically, on four female friends living in Brooklyn, and those were Khadijah, played by Queen Latifah in what was her first non-musical introduction to America, basically. 

Dr. Justin:  Like her first acting? 

Drew:  Yeah. This is three years before Set It Off, which is weird because I would have imagined that Set It Off was the first thing that happened. No. This was her first thing. She did a sitcom. 

Glen:  I'm surprised--

Dr. Justin:  I feel like Set It Off was a big deal, like I could see this being a warm-up to that for her to prove herself for Set It Off. 

Drew:  Set It Off is also a four-woman ensemble feature. 

Dr. Justin:  Set It Off is kind of amazing. I actually want to research and rewatch it for the heist film I want to write. 

Drew:  So when Nicole Byer did the movie podcast, she mentioned that she finds Queen Latifah's death scene in Set It Off hilarious, so I rewatched it today. It does take a really long time for her to die, and she's acting the hell out of it, but—

Dr. Justin:  Really acting the hell out of it, almost to a superhuman—it would rival probably a Marvel movie kind of death, at this point. I know that's supposed to be a pivotal moment, because doesn't—whose character is it? Jada's character, isn't she watching it happen as she pulls away on the bus? 

Drew:  One of them is watching. I wasn't sure who it was. 

Dr. Justin:  I think it's her because she's the only one—spoiler alert. She's the only one at the end that goes off and rides into the sunset. 

Drew:  I don't think we can spoil a movie that came out in 1996. 

Glen:  Oh, we can. 

Dr. Justin:  No. I agree. It's fine. It's fine. It's totally fine. People should still watch it because it's amazing. 

Drew:  The only other thing she'd done before this was House Party 2, and she became basically the glue that holds the cast together on this. She is Kadijah, the editor of Flavor magazine, and it's very nice—

Glen:  Is that a cooking magazine? 

Drew:  It is not. 

Dr. Justin:  It is not. 

Drew:  It is an urban culture magazine. And it's weird to think about it being realistic that someone at her age could be the editor of a print publication, and that was a job you could actually have in 1993. That's not something that really happens anymore. 

Glen:  You remember print? 

Drew:  Yeah! Fondly. 

Dr. Justin:  [laughs] But I feel like for a magazine of that type, if she started it and created it and watched it grow, yeah, that would be something that she could have essentially had happen. Right? 

Drew:  It's realistic at the point this TV series takes place. It's just not something that's going to happen now. 

Glen:  Drew—

Dr. Justin:  Oh, definitely not. Maybe she could be an influencer—

Drew:  She would have—

Glen:  She'd have Instagram. 

Dr. Justin:  —and her Instagram handle would be like "KadijahFlavor."

Drew:  She would actually have a podcast, is what it would be. That would be what it was. 

Glen:  Okay, yeah. Hey, Drew—your water glass is making me super nervous. 

Drew:  So then there's Synclaire, who I initially thought she was the Rose Nylund of the show. 

Glen:  She's the Woody. 

Drew:  She's the Phoebe. 

Glen:  Oh, yeah. 

Drew:  She's the Phoebe—

Dr. Justin:  [sighs] I never really watched that show, but okay. 

Drew:  Phoebe is the dumb, flighty one who says, like—

Glen:  I wouldn't call Phoebe "dumb." 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah, because I feel like—I know enough of that show. She constantly proves herself to be a good friend and attentive—

Drew:  Spacey. 

Glen:  She's spacey. She's alternative. 

Dr. Justin:  Maybe a little spacey. Yeah. That's good. 

Glen:  Crunchy. 

Dr. Justin:  With a heart of gold. 

Drew:  So I watched probably most of the episodes of the first two seasons and a big chunk of the third season, and there are times when Synclaire is written to be so dumb that I worry about her welfare. I'd be like, "Is she okay?" 

Glen:  Yeah. I worry about her living in New York. 

Drew:  [laughs] Yeah. I'm glad that she's still there. She is played very well by original In Living Color cast member, Kim Coles, who I know is probably most familiar to Glen as From Frasier. 

Glen:  Oh!

Drew:  Mm-hmm. She played—what's her name? 

Glen:  Dr. Mary? 

Drew:  Dr. Mary—who is probably the only person of color to recur on Frasier. 

Dr. Justin:  That's probably true. Yeah. 

Drew:  Maybe Mercedes Ruehl and her. And she actually almost got her own spinoff. That was something because the character was fairly successful. 

Dr. Justin:  Really? 

Glen:  She was fantastic. 

Drew:  She's really good on the show, and Kelsey Grammer liked her, and there was some talk for a bit that Dr. Mary might get her own spinoff—which would have been great because the Cheers line would have kept going. It didn't happen, but what did happen is that Kelsey Grammer was the producer on Girlfriends, which is like, "Oh. You made the show, and you didn't put Kim Coles on it?" She could have had something to do on that show. Also, Girlfriends: 172 episodes. 

Glen:  No. 

Drew:  172 episodes. 

Dr. Justin:  It's a good show. 

Drew:  But I just didn't realize it was on for that long. That's, like, eight seasons. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. People love that show. And I think there was talk about maybe a Girlfriends movie at one point. 

Drew:  That would make sense. Now Tracee Ellis Ross is too fancy to do that, probably. 

Dr. Justin:  I don't know. She might revisit it. I don't know. 

Drew:  She's really proud of it. She mentioned it in one of those sitcom-actress roundtables. She was like, "We got syndicated," and it was like, "Yeah. Good for you." 

Dr. Justin:  No, she's proud of that. It was huge for her. 

Drew:  Third is Regine, who is played by Kim Fields, who is essentially playing Blair from Facts of Life. She upgraded from being Tootie on Facts of Life; now she gets to be the Blair—which makes sense because she's so fucking cute on this show, and she's materialistic and kind of narcissistic—

Glen:  Kind of narcissistic? 

Dr. Justin:  But narcissistic with a heart of gold? 

Drew:  They soften her out a little bit more later on. I think she loses her job working for the TV show and has to figure shit out a little bit. 

Glen:  Yes. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, yeah. Definitely. That happens. 

Drew:  But just knowing she had to play little Tootie on the roller skates for so long, it's nice to see her playing basically a diva. And then she spars in a very Blair-and-Jo-Facts-of-Life fashion with Max, played by Erika Alexander who's—she's not the bitchy one. She's the sharp one? 

Glen:  She's the hard one. 

Dr. Justin:  She's the successful one. 

Glen:  She's a lawyer. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. She's a lawyer, a hard worker—the one that's just trying to make it and, I think, one of the best parts of the show, 100 percent. 

Glen:  Yeah. 

Drew:  Yes. 

Dr. Justin:  Hilarious, great physical comedy, great comic timing—she's incredible. 

Drew:  She's also on Black Lightning now, which I have not seen yet. I'm very excited that she apparently has a recurring role on that. The lead on Black Lightning is the guy that Kadijah marries at the end of the show. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, that's right. Scooter. She was also one of the cops in Get Out. 

Drew:  Was she?

Dr. Justin:  Mm-hmm. 

Drew:  I did not recognize her. 

Glen:  Oh! Yes. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. She's an incredible actress. There's a lot of supporting roles that she pops into, and every time she comes up onscreen it's [whispers] a revelation. 

Drew:  She also hasn't really aged a day. 

Glen:  Yeah. That's why it took me a second because oh, my gosh, yes. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. She's kind of brilliant. I really love her and wish she had more work. 

Drew:  Then there's also Kyle and Overton, who are the guys who live across the hall. Kyle is obsessed with clothes and very image conscious, and he's played by T.C. Carson. 

Drew:  Didn't they live upstairs? Not across the hall. They live upstairs. 

Glen:  Yeah. It's upstairs. But the other apartment also has an upstairs. I was trying to figure out the layout of this brownstone. 

Dr. Justin:  Does it really? 

Glen:  It does. There's a staircase. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, that's true—because their apartment has an upstairs—yeah. Kyle and Overton—

Glen:  I tried diagraming this, and it wasn't making sense to me. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. It's kind of like—[laughs]. 

Glen:  It's a House of Leaves situation going on. 

Dr. Justin:  Exactly, or like an Escher drawing that just circularly goes around a bunch of staircases that loop around over and over and over and over again. 

Drew:  Overton is John Henton, and he's also too dumb to still be alive, and then he ends up in a relationship with Synclaire, and I'm like, "No. You guys have to find a smarter person to procreate with because your kids are going to be so dumb." 

Dr. Justin:  Or they'll be super smart. You don't know!

Glen:  You don't know. 

Drew:  I don't know. 

Glen:  Drew!

Dr. Justin:  Genetics—they don't work like that. A dumb person and a dumb person don't necessarily have to make a dumb person. 

Glen:  You watched Step by Step. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, my gosh. 

Drew:  Not a realistic portrayal of genetics. 

Glen:  Okay. 

Dr. Justin:  Well, either way, don't count them out. That was also a heartwarming moment and throughline of that whole show as well. 

Drew:  It's very cute, but—

Dr. Justin:  You fear for them and their future imaginary children. 

Drew:  Having seen a lot of episodes in rapid succession, sometimes both of those characters are written to be very dumb, and sometimes they're written to be functionally kind of dippy, and sometimes I'm like, "Oh, god." I am concerned for them. But they seem to like each other, and they seem very happy together, so I'm not going to judge them for that. 

Dr. Justin:  Well, I found it romantic. 

Drew:  Well, the interesting thing about those two guys being part of the show is that if you look for promo footage and images, sometimes it's the four female leads together and the guys aren't there. But in the opening credits, it's all six of them. It is a six-person show. And initially, I always thought of the show as being like Golden Girls but it's four older women, and Designing Women is four women in the south—and this is four black women living in New York. No. It is not that. It is Friends. It is Friends because it's six young people chasing their dreams and dating and finding romance in New York and contained in a very small environment because they live so close to each other—

Glen:  And Maxine is the Ross because she doesn't live in the building. 

Drew:  She is. 

Dr. Justin:  [laughs]

Drew:  And basically, Synclaire is the Phoebe. You could actually probably draw lines to figure out Kim Coles is—what's her name? Regine is the Rachel. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh. 

Drew:  Kadijah is Monica. 

Glen:  Overton is Joey. 

Drew:  And I guess that makes the guy—

Glen:  Kyle—Chandler. 

Dr. Justin:  Oooh. I've never thought of it that way. 

Drew:  Dude. So I thought I'd figure this out. 

Glen:  Well, look at this board with red string all over it. 

Dr. Justin:  [laughs] "I have a diagram." 

Drew:  Well, I thought I was very smart to figure this out—no. They all knew this. Everyone who was working on Living Single was completely aware of this. So it was created and show-run by Yvette Lee Bowser, who by the way was a producer on A Different World and then is now the showrunner on Dear White People, which made me very happy that that was a great throughline for her career. Okay. So the Friends thing. The Friends thing is very important because there is this L.A. Times piece that ran in 1996, a month before this episode aired, all about how basically this show premiered in 1993, NBC was like, "We want that," and they made a version of the show where they replaced all the black people with white people—and it became Friends. 

Dr. Justin:  So that, I wasn't certain that was the direction you were going, so that makes me feel a little bit better about it because what I thought you were going to say was that this is just a "black Friends," and in fact—

Glen:  Hmm-mmm. 

Drew:  No. Friends—

Dr. Justin:  —Friends is a white Living Single. So that's how you should present it, and say, "Oh. Those characters are representations of them." 

Drew:  But you can't—this was first. I'm going to explain all that in a second. But Friends was such a juggernaut that it kind of dwarfs everything around it, and everyone thinks of Friends being the show that started this whole sexy people in New York having jobs and going on dates, but this was actually where it started; it just doesn't get any credit for it. And it didn't get credit back in 1996, because this article in L.A. Times ran where they interview Yvette Lee Bowser. She says, "It's disappointing that we have never gotten the kind of push that Friends had. I have issues with the studio and the network over the promotion of the show." Both these shows were filmed at Warner Bros. in Burbank. This one was first, Friends was second, and  they were very well aware of how Friends was being treated versus how they were being treated. The article quotes all four of the actresses, and it's amazing. Erika Alexander says, "Friends is a really good sample of Living Single," which is a very precise, Max-like burn. Queen Latifah has a quote about how their billboard went up at the studio first, and then the Friends billboard went up the next year, after that show began and turned into a hit—but the view of the Living Single billboard was actually blocked by the Friends billboard, which I cannot think of a better metaphor for the situation. So she's saying, like, "It just pisses me off that every time I see the Friends billboard and the little piece of our billboard." How much more of a push do they need? They wanted Warner Bros. to support them the way they had been doing for friends. Kim Fields says, "But the minute they start referring to us as 'black Friends,' that's when I go off. It's better to call them the 'white Living Single.'"

Dr. Justin:  That's what I just said!

Drew:  That's what she said back in the day. So they all knew—

Dr. Justin:  I love that. I did not know that, but that's kind of brilliant. I really love that little nugget that you've just revealed. 

Drew:  And Queen Latifah was on James Corden two years ago, and he actually asked—so I don't know why Laverne Cox is also there, but it was Queen Latifah and Laverne Cox trauma. 

Glen:  Why not? Why can't she be there?

Drew:  I just don't know what they were promoting together, necessarily. But he asked Queen Latifah about this whole Friends/Living Single thing, and she says, "Okay. Here's what happened—"

Queen Latifah:  It was interesting because when Living Single came out, shortly thereafter Warren Littlefield, who was president of NBC—they asked him if he could have any show on television, any of the new shows, which one would it be, and he said ' Living Single.' It was in the newspaper. And the next thing you know, here comes Friends—which was an amazing show, and they did a great job with it. So I mean, if you're going to rock it, that's the way to do it. You know what I mean?" 

James Cordon:  Sure. But I know what you mean. It was six people sharing apartments in the city—

Queen Latifah:  Yep. In the city, leading life. And so, yeah. 

Drew:  I was kind of already in a Friends-can-fuck-itself mood, and this is really not helping. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. I didn't really watch Friends at all. 

Glen:  Are we talking about Friends next week? 

Drew:  Yes, we are, and I'm not going to have nice things to say about it, probably. Also, I close out all the episodes with a song, and every song is picked because it ties into the subject matter in some way or another. I think I want this one to be the original version of "Tainted Love," which was sung by Gloria Jones as a soul single. Most people have not heard it, and it's a very good version of "Tainted Love," but "Tainted Love" got a lot bigger as a new wave song by Soft Cell. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, my god. That's a good point. 

Glen:  Are we going to have to go to commercial before even talking about the episode? 

Drew:  No. 

Glen:  Okay. 

Dr. Justin:  I was wondering when we'd get back to it. 

Drew:  There is actually one more thing I do want to talk about before we get into it, though. How comfortable do you guys feel discussing Queen Latifah's sexuality? 

Dr. Justin:  I think it's essential, especially given this episode that we're talking about. 

Drew:  It's super weird. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. I'm curious what those discussions were. 

Drew:  We don't really even know if that something was being discussed openly on set because we really don't know—

Dr. Justin:  Well, I mean, the rumors—I shouldn't even call them rumors. Her relationships were known back then. I don't think that was really a secret. I don't think she really kept it a secret from in life, outwardly. Publicly, yes—but those whispers were definitely out there back then. So I'm curious. For me personally, this episode, I'm curious to see—

Drew:  It's fascinating. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. There were a lot of choices that were made. That could have been Kadijah's roommate from college. 

Drew:  That would have been a very different episode. It would be even more personal. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah, personal, and maybe even a little bit meta to have all of those layers on top of it. Discussing the episode, there are some layers that I would like us to unpack or peel back because that's the most intriguing part of it to me is Queen Latifah's presence and what role she played in this particular episode. 

Drew:  I just want to get everyone's okay that we're okay talking about it because we've talked about a lot—

Dr. Justin:  I mean, get Queen Latifah's "okay."

Drew:  She's not going to give it because I don't think she's ever going to come out because she hasn't yet. So just it's not something she's interested in doing. It's her prerogative to do, but it still makes for an interesting episode to discuss. Also, we've talked about a lot of people who were closeted at the time the episode aired but have since come out; this is the first time we've encountered someone who is not—

Glen:  Who's alive. 

Drew:  Yeah, which is just a very interesting situation. Most of the people who are in glass closets like Anderson Cooper and Jodi Foster finally did come out, and we can talk about it now. She's kind of maybe one of the most famous people who—her and John Travolta. Not that I want to compare her to John Travolta, but—

Dr. Justin:  Oh, no. Messy. 

Glen:  He finally shaved his head, though. 

Drew:  Good for him. Save some money on wigs. This episode is the 22nd episode of Season 3. The first three seasons are all 27 episodes long, which is insane. That's not something that ever happens anymore. They made these ladies work really hard. 

Dr. Justin:  There are a lot of episodes. I feel like even the fourth season was still in the 20s, wasn't it? And then the fifth one—15? 

Drew:  It was short. That was short—yeah. I can't find the Nielsen ratings for this week, but this show was the 85th most-watched show. Friends was the third-watched show. They aired opposite each other. So this aired the same night as a brand-new Friends, and that wasn't helping Living Single, even though it was Fox's effort to being like, "Hey, Hispanic and black viewers. Watch our stuff instead," and it worked to a degree. It just didn't work enough. 

Dr. Justin:  I didn't watch Friends, so it worked. 

Drew:  You did your part. 

Dr. Justin:  Mm-hmm. 

Drew:  If you look at the top shows for this week, it's literally Friends, The Single Guy, Caroline in the City, and then Boston Common, which was going to be NBC's new big thing and was basically a Friends-style show that just happened to take place in Boston rather than Manhattan. It lasted—

Glen:  Groundbreaking. 

Dr. Justin:  [laughs]

Drew:  It did have a black character, and it's the only one of all those shows that had a person of color in the main cast. 

Dr. Justin:  Huh. 

Drew:  It lasted two seasons. Her name was Tasha Smith, and she's still doing stuff. It was created by the guys who did Will & Grace. Do you remember Boston Common? 

Glen:  Yes. 

Drew:  Do you remember how Wyleen was the main character's younger sister? 

Glen:  Mm-hmm. 

Drew:  Do you know that she's the voice of Yuna in Final Fantasy X? 

Glen:  Oh!

Drew:  That's the thing she went on to do. 

Glen:  Did she also do that in Final Fantasy X-2? 

Drew:  Yes. 

Glen:  Okay. Well, then she's a pop star, technically. 

Drew:  She actually is a pretty good singer. This episode was written by Bill Fuller and Jim Pond who had written a few Night Courts together and who actually were producers on Living Single at the time. It was directed by Rae Kraus, who I'm pretty sure is a female director and might be the second female director whose episode we've discussed on this show. She did Fresh Prince and a few other shows. Now the episode. The episode opens with Synclaire making decorations for some sort of wedding party and Kadijah flipping through a yearbook, reminiscing about a roommate that was apparently very dear to her college experience but we've never heard of before. Her name is Shayla. She's the one who's getting married. Right off the bat, I think a bit difference between this and a lot of the NBC shows is that it's meaner because Regine and Max genuinely seem to dislike each other. They might have a different dynamic in other episodes. But she comes in and looks at the yearbook over Kadijah's shoulder, and then is like—

Kadijah:  Okay. Here we are, at a demonstration in front of the student union. That's me, that's Max, and that's Shayla. 

Regine:  Oh, that's Max's legendary roommate, huh? She's pretty. Oh. That's because she's standing next to Max. 

[audience laughs] 

Dr. Justin:  [laughs]

Drew:  That's a really mean—that's not cool. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. Their banter is particularly harsh in this episode. I don't remember them being that catty or that mean to each other, but it's still funny. This stuff is really funny, and I—

Glen:  I feel like my reaction to a lot of what they said was, "Oh. They just said the thing that the other shows just hint at." 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. Yeah, but there was definitely an edge in a place that they would be able to go to in Living Single that really—I mean, it worked. You know? 

Drew:  I think it's the Fox comedy dynamic versus the NBC dynamic. There's a little bit of Married… with Children meanness in it. But that's most of what I watched when I was growing up. 

Dr. Justin:  And it's not like Max is vulnerable. Max feeds it right back. So it's not—

Drew:  That's true. And no one's picking on Synclaire that way. It's the two powerhouses picking on each other. 

Glen:  I also don't think it was pandering cruelty in the way that Married… with Children could sometimes be. They weren't playing it for the audiences, necessarily—I mean, they were. It's a sitcom. But that's just how their characters talk to each other. 

Drew:  Max shows up, and she's excited that Shayla's going to be showing up, and she mentions that Shayla always bet that Max was going to be the one who would jump the broom first. 

Max:  It's cool. She bet me I'd be the first to jump the broom.

Regine:  So she drank pretty much around the clock? 

[audience laughs] 

Max:  Regine, why don't you click your heels three times and go to hell? 

[audience laughs and applauds]

Glen:  That was the line that clenched it for me in this episode, like, "Oh. That's right. That's what this show is." 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. It was really good—they hit the ground running, and I think that humor in that, it's there. That's what they do. That's the style of the show. That's their relationship, and that's the energy. Regine is always snappy, has something quick to say, but Max has something even quicker to say back. 

Glen:  It's like family. I say the cruelest things to my family, sometimes, but if anyone else is mean to my family I'll bite their heads off, maybe. 

Drew:  I never said anything about your family. 

Dr. Justin:  [laughs]

Drew:  Also, they both get coded a little lesbiany in this episode—just there's a lot of weird, complicated things. 

Dr. Justin:  I found it also interesting that her character was the one that has issues with the roommate when her character, traditionally, is the one that wears suits that are a little bit more stereotypically masculine, she works hard, she's always the go-getter. 

Drew:  She's a lawyer, which is an aggressive job. She's an aggressive lawyer. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. And they make it clear that's what she is. She's a career woman, and there are episodes where she—I feel like there are episodes where she has to stand out and defy and break that glass ceiling and stand up for women in the workplace. I just found it an interesting—

Drew:  That she would be the one who also has a homophobia problem? 

Dr. Justin:  Yes. Yeah. 

Glen:  But does she? 

Drew:  We learn it very shortly because Shayla shows up, and Shayla is played by Karen Malina White, who I recognize as being Jazz's wife from Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, but you guys recognize as being Charmaine from A Different World and "The Phylicia Rashad Show." Again, I don't remember Erika Alexander or this actress on either of those shows, but they obviously were on both, and somehow it just faded out of my memory. But I liked her from Fresh Prince because she has a very distinctive voice, and she has a lot of energy in that voice. She's very good in this role. She's a cute little package of a lot of power, basically. She's Shayla. She's the famous college roommate. And in real life, she was the long-time partner to Malcolm-Jamal Warner, although they have since split up, which made me sad. 

Glen:  Aw. 

Dr. Justin:  Who is Malcolm-Jamal Warner dating now? 

Drew:  Oh. I don't know. 

Dr. Justin:  I want to say it was Regina King, but maybe not. I could be completely wrong. 

Drew:  The first thing that comes up is Michelle Thomas from Family Matters, which is really sad. 

Dr. Justin:  Why is that sad? 

Drew:  Myra Monkhouse was the girl who was in love with Steve—

Glen:  Oh!

Drew:  She got a very aggressive form of cancer, and she died very young. 

Dr. Justin:  What? 

Drew:  Yeah. So I don't know if they actually got married, but she was dating Malcolm-Jamal Warner and there's this very sad story about how the last thing she ever said was "Olive juice," because if you mouth the words "olive juice" it looks like "I love you," and it was a private joke they had. It's very sad. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, my gosh. 

Drew:  I think she died while Family Matters was still on the air. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, my gosh. 

Drew:  I think that's why that character disappeared from the show. 

Dr. Justin:  Whoa. 

Drew:  Yeah. I don't know who he's dating now, but—[sighs].

Dr. Justin:  There was somebody—I can't remember. But yeah. Okay. 

Drew:  Shayla's fiancée is parking the car. 

Glen:  Her fiancée's name is Chris. 

Drew:  Chris. Chris is parking the car. And she's like, "Max, there's something I should tell you," and it's extra weird thinking that Kadijah knows what's happening because she knows the secret the entire time—

Dr. Justin:  You know what? I didn't even think that. Yeah. Later in the episode, that little reveal—

Drew:  Not even reacting. And then, of course, Chris enters. Chris is played by Tanika Ray, a woman—who is now the host of Extra, which is—

Glen:  What!

Dr. Justin:  Oh, wow! I did not know that. 

Drew:  She's on Extra. Mm-hmm. 

Glen:  I didn't know because I don't watch it. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. Exactly. That's—[laughs]—I did the generous surprise. I was like, "Oh. I did not know that!"

Drew:  It's possible you could just be shopping at The Grove and find out who is hosting Extra, but she's apparently been on it for two years. The reaction to it is one of the girls says, "Girl," and then Synclaire immediately starts pulling off the cake toppers, which are a groom and bride—very joyously. 

Synclaire:  Lesbians. Neat! Neat! [squeaks and exclaims]

[audience laughs] 

Drew:  And now that we've actually gotten to the episode, we're going to take a commercial break. 

Glen:  'Kay. Bye. 

["Living Single Theme Song" performed by Queen Latifah plays]

[Gayest Episode Ever promotes A Love Bizarre/Queerdo by Stevie Hannigan and Matthew Dean Stewart]

[an old promo for Sliders plays]

[an old promo for The Simpsons plays]

[Gayest Episode Ever promotes their Patreon]

["Living Single Theme Song" performed by Queen Latifah plays]

Glen:  Malcolm-Jamal Warner—shirtless. 

Drew:  Okay. So we're back. Max is really not okay with the fact that Shayla is marrying a woman, or at least with the fact that this news has just been delivered to her, and they don't shy away from making her be aggressively negative about it. 

Chris:  Max, I've heard so much about you. I feel like I know you. 

Max:  Funny. I had you pictured a little differently—I thought you'd be a man. 

[audience laughs] 

Shayla:  Well, if you heard her Yaphet Kotto impression, you'd swear she was [characters laugh].

Synclaire:  Yaphet Kotto! 

Kadijah:  Yaphet Kotto. That is funny. That is a funny man. 

Drew:  And there's this weird joke that Shayla makes about how "Oh, you should hear her Yaphet Kotto impression." I don't know why he would have been in the ether, that that's the one they would have used. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah, at that time. 

Drew:  He was on Homicide: Life on the Street, but I just don't know—for something that's happening in 1996—that anyone would have a Yaphet Kotto impression? 

Glen:  I don't know about that. But yes, Max is sort of aggressive and cruel from the get-go, and maybe I've just watched too many of these gay episodes, but I was very quickly—not on her side, obviously, but I understood where her aggression was coming from. I don't know if it's because it's a trope or if she played it with a little bit more hidden sympathy. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. It didn't feel as—I was going into this episode and revisiting this episode with the expectation that I might end up being disappointed, and at every turn, I realized that this show was ahead of its time. It really was more progressive than I realized, even at the time. And this episode—maybe a couple jokes I think steered a little to stereotypically disappointing. But overall, I think you're right, Glen. I felt like it was very genuine in the way that they approached it, and it wasn't strictly from a place of homophobia. I think it was from a place—at least the way that Erika Alexander was playing it in Max—of the shock and surprise of seemingly a secret that she felt that she should have known. And it ended up playing more as a vulnerability that here's one of her best friends not telling her something or not feeling close enough to tell her about something and how that hurt her more than anything else. 

Glen:  Exactly. It was from a place of hurt. And even that line that should be a joke where she's like, "Funny, I pictured you differently. I thought you'd be a man"—in another sitcom it would be like, "Oh. I thought you'd be taller with a beard." She didn't go for the joke. She went for—

Drew:  She's being pretty honest. 

Glen:  Yeah. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. 

Drew:  They kind of treat it like a joke, but I guess that's just the audience. 

Dr. Justin:  That's true. That's a really good point, though. I think it's important to point that out because it is very dirdirect, and you're right. The audience response to that—it's not like it's played as a joke. There's a little bit of a lag that's in there in that moment to allow for laughter, but the delivery of it is actually more of an honest delivery than one that's trying to fish for a punchline. 

Drew:  I agree. But they also have Synclaire to cut the mood. 

Shayla:  You know, Max, I'm sorry. I mean, I tried to tell you for years, but every time I called I just couldn't find the words. 

Max:  "I'm gay" is a real toll saver.

[audience laughs] 

Synclaire:  So girls, Peppermint Patty—is she, or isn't she? 

[audience laughs] 

Drew:  Which is something that kind of character would say. But then it cuts to Queen Latifah, and every time it cuts back to her I'm just looking at her face being like, "What is she thinking right now? What is going through her head as this scene is unfolding for her, and what is this like for her? Is this interesting? Is it fun? Is it weird for her?" 

Dr. Justin:  Do you think she's prideful about that moment? Do you think she's [thinking she's] doing something  groundbreaking—like, "This is a big episode. This is an important episode"? Or do you think she's still closeted enough at that point where she's stressed out that this episode is about to air and she is a part of it? 

Drew:  I mean, she would go on to play a lesbian character in Set It Off, so she wasn't so uncomfortable with that queer veneer that she didn't want to do that, but she was also three years younger and not as far along in her career. I was also thinking about the fact that a bit after this ended she did a talk show—

Dr. Justin:  Mm-hmm. I remember that. 

Drew:  It didn't last very long. This is actually not my theory. I think it was on You're Making It Worse. They were talking about the fact that this show didn't connect because if you're hosting a talk show, you kind of have to be an open book the way Oprah talked about a lot of personal stuff. She didn't do that, and that prevents you from interacting with your talk show audience the way a talk show host actually probably needs to. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah, or expecting your guests to open up in a way that you're asking them to for an authentic, real interview, and you're kind of hiding behind this big secret. 

Glen:  And obviously, her being in the closet does color her character's choice of not telling Max that we'll find out in the next scene—of letting this all happen and letting Max be embarrassed and hurt and horrified in public all coming from the place of "It's not my secret to tell you." It's Shayla's secret. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah, which I think is also pretty meta that she actually does know, and she's in on it, which then makes you wonder why does Kadijah know about Shayla being a lesbian? 

Drew:  Shayla and Chris walk out, and Max walks them out, and then they bump into Kyle who is foppish and very concerned with the way he's dressed. His manner of speaking reminds me of—remember the joke on 30 Rock, "Black Frasier"? 

Glen:  Yes. 

Drew:  He sounds like "Black Frasier" a little bit. But also, he's the voice of Kratos in God of War. 

Glen:  [gasps!]

Dr. Justin:  Mm-hmm. 

Drew:  That's one of his follow-up jobs after this. He's been voicing Kratos for kind of a long time. 

Glen:  I just started playing God of War for PlayStation 4.

Dr. Justin:  I just started playing it maybe two weeks ago. 

Glen:  I started playing it on Father's Day, so it was very—weird. 

Drew:  That makes sense. 

Dr. Justin:  [laughs]

Drew:  And as far as I know, he is still doing the voice of the character. It's a very distinctive voice. 

Glen:  It's a very good voice. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. It sounds like—I was actually wondering who that is and why it's so familiar, and you have answered yet another puzzle for me. 

Glen:  Welcome to Drew's Box of Mysteries. 

Dr. Justin:  I know. So random. 

Drew:  So he tries to hit on the girls, and they shut him down hardcore. 

Dr. Justin:  They are not having it. 

Kyle:  And who are these two gorgeous women who obviously don't realize the awful company they're keeping? 

[audience laughs] 

Max:  Chris and Shayla from Seattle, the grinning peacock is Kyle. 

Chris:  It's nice to meet you. 

Kyle:  Oh, the pleasure is mine. 

Shayla:  Hello. 

Kyle:  Hello. And should you require a tour of our fair city, I am the ultimate guide to Gotham. 

Chris:  Great. You can show us all the lesbian hangouts. 

[audience laughs uproariously and applauds]

Drew:  They leave, and then Overton comes in and kind of implies that he has driven Max to lesbianism, which whatever. And then there's this other weird plot between these two about how Kyle tells Overton that he needs to dress better and refers him to his personal tailor. He goes off to do that, and that comes back in a very—that's the only B-plot, and it's just a weird thing. But that goes somewhere kind of gay very quickly. So the next scene is what you're talking about where Max is being like, "I can't believe Shayla hid this secret from us the entire time," and Kadijah's like, "Well—"

Max:  If Shayla didn't feel close enough to share something this important until now, what does it say about our friendship? I mean, come on! Aren't you a little upset finding out like this? 

Kadijah:  Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm upset. I'm damn upset. 

[audience laughs] 

Max:  Hold up! When did she tell you? 

Kadijah:  Just a little bit before you. That's all. 

Max:  How much before?

[audience laughs] 

Kadijah:  Junior year. 

Max:  You knew—[exclaims!]

[audience laughs] 

Max:  I mean, gosh. Does everybody know? What is it, the joke's on me? 

Kadijah:  Max, she just wanted to tell you in her own time. 

Max:  Well, when would that be? After the second turkey-baster baby? 

[audience laughs and utters some scandalized oohs]

Dr. Justin:  But I think that also makes this quite the progressive episode as well because very early on they veer away from the typical tropes of "a very special episode" of whatever '90s sitcom when it tackles a gay episode or a gay issue. And I think what I like about this detail is that there is more of a reveal or more of a reason why she didn't tell Max. 

Drew:  Yeah. It's not for no reason. There's a good reason why Max has not been told. 

Dr. Justin:  And again, it steers it away from homophobia and teaching a lesson and more about something more personal. 

Glen:  It becomes more about allies. 

Dr. Justin:  And friendship and honesty, and what you reveal and what you share with friends—because I've had friends, even, who were hurt by the fact that I didn't tell them that I was gay until I decided to tell them that I was gay. And they were like, "Well, why wouldn't you?" They internalize that, and they personalize that as if it's something that's so essential and so specific to who you are, and you not revealing that must in some way mean that you're not as close as you thought you were, or that you're not as good of friends as you were. And when you bring it to that, I think it makes it something that's very universal instead of teaching a lesson and pointing a finger and being like, "Max! You can't be a homophobe," and again, it's not about the homophobia. It's more about that personal aspect of it—their friendship. I think that's what's really brilliant about the writing of this episode is that it finds that universality in what it means or what you know or what you feel about a friend and what that means if you don't know everything about that person. Does that make sense? 

Drew:  Yeah. But what it means is that it doesn't reflect badly on you at all. It's probably about the other person's choices, and don't take it too personally. 

Dr. Justin:  One hundred percent—which I don't think is done really well on other shows. 

Drew:  No. It takes us a few scenes to get there, but we do get there. Before that, there is this—Kadijah walks into the living room, and Synclaire is hanging up a banner that says, "Welcome, lesbians!" 

Glen:  Nice banner. 

Drew:  It's a very nice banner. But there's a point where Queen Latifah is standing behind a banner that says, "Welcome, lesbians!" and then she tears it down, and the symbolism is—

Dr. Justin:  Again. Again. 

Drew:  Yes. That had to be, on some level, a little bit weird for her, but she was like, "Oh. Okay. That's fine." Synclaire is Kadijah's cousin, and they have a conversation about—Synclaire says, "I've never met anyone—I don't know anyone who's gay." 

Synclaire:  All right, all right. I'll admit it. I'm not up on lesbian etiquette. It's not like I've ever known any before. 

Kadijah:  Mm-hmm. Aunt Gladys was gay. 

Synclaire:  Aunt Gladys was not gay. She just never found the right man—like her roommate, Aunt Hazel. 

[audience laughs] 

Dr. Justin:  [laughs]

Drew:  But it's also weird to be like, "No, no. She's not gay. She just was always with women, and she never talked about it," but Queen Latifah's like, "Okay, but we know she was gay." And I was like, "This is too much!" This is very personal to her life. It's just very on the nose, but they did it. 

Glen:  But she's still doing it to this day. She is a rock. You are not going to shake the lesbian out of her [laughter].

Drew:  No. No. I mean, there's no reason why she has to, I guess, but I just wonder what would it take. I'm sure her friends know. If you're Queen Latifah's friend, tweet at us. 

Dr. Justin:  I feel like a lot of people know. I don't know. At this point, I don't know what she gains by not coming out, but that privacy is important to her—her alleged privacy or supposed privacy. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't get it. I really don't get it. But I know it's obviously her choice. Live your life however you live it. I just—I don't get it. 

Drew:  Yeah. I would love to hear the reasoning, but she's not going to do that because why would she tell me? 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. 

Glen:  Oh, my god. But what if she came on this podcast and came out? 

Drew:  That would be amazing [laughs]. That would be a great episode.

Dr. Justin:  That would be incredible. Go for it. Somebody—

Glen:  Someone make that happen. 

Drew:  I'm sure we know someone that knows her, right? We probably do. 

Dr. Justin:  I'm sure. 

Glen:  Think that would get us a lot of rate and reviews? [laughter]

Drew:  Yeah. I don't know what the end result of that would be, but a lot of people would listen. 

Dr. Justin:  Listen to this podcast [laughs]. Like us wherever you listen to podcasts. Write a review. 

Glen:  If we get 50 five-star reviews, Queen Latifah will come out. 

Dr. Justin:  Uh, there you go. Put that challenge out to our listeners. 

Drew:  I think we have 50. 

Glen:  Shit. 

Dr. Justin:  There you go. Here she comes. 

Drew:  Regine comes downstairs, and she's dressed like a tomboyish lesbian. She's wearing, like, not-cute—

Dr. Justin:  A sweat suit—like a track suit. 

Drew:  —and a hat. 

Glen:  But it all still matches and looks cute. 

Dr. Justin:  Matches, looks cute. It's a little baggy for her, but—

Glen:  Yeah. That didn't really work for her body type. 

Dr. Justin:  Which I thought was also a weird choice, but okay. 

Drew:  So it comes up later why it's a weird choice, but it's just interesting. If you ever want to see Kim Fields dressed like a tomboyish lesbian, this is the episode to see it because she does it. 

Glen:  But now she's the Joe. 

Drew:  Yeah. She becomes the Joe for a second. 

Dr. Justin:  [laughs]

Drew:  And she's doing it specifically so she doesn't break any hearts because all of the lesbian friends are coming over to the house for the wedding shower. 

Kadijah:  What the hell is this? 

Regine:  I'm thinking of our guests. You know I'm cute, and you know how enticing I usually look. Why put out the banquet if they can't eat? 

[audience laughs] 

Kadijah:  Well, you succeeded. You definitely look like a sack lunch. 

Drew:  So she's trying to play it down—but by dressing like a lesbian. It's a very poor plan. And then lesbians start coming over. And then right after that happens, we go back to the hallway where we see Overton dressed up like Kyle. So we just had Regine in lesbian drag, and then we have this scene where Overton is dressed like Kyle. So they're like a doubling, and you're like, "Oh. They kind of look like they might be one of those gay couples that look the same." 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, that's right. There is a joke in there. 

Drew:  It happens. So then one of the party guests comes in, and it's Merrin Dungey, who is Francie from Alias. 

Dr. Justin:  Yep. 

Drew:  And also, she's the cop on Pretty—

Dr. Justin:  Big Little Lies. 

Drew:  I almost said Pretty Little Liars again. 

Dr. Justin:  Yep. I tried to save you from it, but you said it anyway. 

Drew:  And she was also recurring on Malcolm in the Middle, and she also played Ursula on Once Upon a Time. Looking at her filmography, I was like, "Ooh. You get to do a bigger range of stuff than most actresses do. You're all over the place, which is so awesome." 

Dr. Justin:  She does. Wasn't her sister head of creative content at ABC and is now over at Netflix? 

Glen:  Oh. 

Drew:  There was a woman by the last name Dungey who is the one who actually canceled Roseanne. Are they—

Dr. Justin:  I think they are. I could be wrong, but I think they are. 

Drew:  I'm going to look that up, actually, because that is extra bonus points if her relative is—

Glen:  Why is that more points? 

Dr. Justin:  Because—

Drew:  Yes. They're sisters. Oh, my gosh! You're right! I just think it's cool because I like Francie, and I like how much she's done, but I also want to give points for her sister is the one who canceled Roseanne, was like, "No. That's it. You don't get a second chance. Fuck you." 

Dr. Justin:  That's huge, [and she] was huge at ABC and is now pretty big over at Netflix. 

Glen:  My brother's never gotten me a job. 

Dr. Justin:  Mine—no. Mine, either. That's fine. There's still time, right? Maybe? Maybe he'll surprise you. 

Drew:  Yeah. You'll be fine. So she comes in, and Overton and Kyle were having a fight about the fact that Kyle does not like that Overton has bit his entire style. 

[audience oohs]

Synclaire:  Oh, Overton! You look good enough to bury!

[audience laughs] 

Overton:  Well thank you, my little pallbearer. But I owe it all to Kyle and his tailor extraordinaire, Mr. Infume. 

Kyle:  [stammers] What the hell is this? You have stolen my whole look—everything from the button pattern to the cut of the pleats. These are original touches that I created with Mr. Infume. And what's that? 

Overton:  Um—wild guess. A lapel? 

Kyle:  No. Those are Barker lapels, and they are gracing the suit of a man who believes "Do not bleach" is a designer label. 

Overton:  Man, get up off your high horse. Mr. Infume said I was a tailor's dream whereas you have some sort of turkey-neck thing working that makes fitting you a challenge. 

[audience laughs] 

Kyle:  Well, excuse me for having a bold Adam's apple. 

Overton:  Kyle, just get over yourself, man! 

Laura:  Oh, I know these lovers' quarrels can be rough, but if it's any consolation, think about how passionate it's going to be when you make up. 

[audience laughs] 

Overton:  Oh, no. No, no, no. Hmm-mmm. Now, there ain't no lovers' quarrel. See, he's just mad because he thinks I'm wearing his clothes—damn!

[audience laughs] 

Glen:  Which is a weird thing to say to strangers. 

Drew:  No one would ever say that to a stranger, ever. That's not how humans would ever talk. But I like that it was—

Dr. Justin:  Would they not? I don't know. Depending on the situation—maybe at a bar. 

Drew:  Maybe. 

Dr. Justin:  Maybe at a bar. Maybe not in somebody's vestibule in their brownstone that you've never met. I don't know. 

Glen:  Yeah. Like, a catty bar fight is one thing, but—

Dr. Justin:  Heck yeah!

Drew:  I like that as a viewer I was like, "Oh. They kind of looked like a gay couple," and then they immediately capitalized on that, and they also are very shortly going to capitalize on the whole thing where Regine is dressed like a lesbian. Max is not happy to be at this wedding shower. She's not hiding it, and it kind of—even knowing that she feels betrayed, I kind of feel bad for lesbian bride because that's a sucky thing to go through. 

Shayla:  Well, Max, I owe you five dollars. Remember? I bet you that you'd be the first to take the plunge? 

Max:  Why don't you keep it? You hold on to things so well. 

[audience oohs]

Drew:  Her gift is inappropriate. Her gift was purchased back when she thought that Shayla was marrying a man, so it's like—

Glen:  It's still a shitty gift. 

Drew:  It's not a very good [laughs]—

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. It was still just his-and-her boxers and panties. 

Glen:  She's a lawyer. She can do better. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, yeah. 

Drew:  Yeah. So it's at this point she makes another comment, and Shayla's like, "We got to go in the kitchen right now." 

Max:  I bought that last week before I found out what everybody else has apparently known since the Ice Age. 

Shayla:  Max. Kitchen. 

Max:  Sure. After you. 

Kadijah:  Suddenly, I'm feeling pretty good about my rice cooker. 

Drew:  And this entire time, I have actually kind of been on the fence with "You're being really rude to your friend, even if your feelings are hurt—" 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah, like, "You're being a shitty friend." 

Drew:  But her acting when—so they have the argument, and Shayla reveals, "The reason I never told you is that I was in love with you." 

Shayla:  What the hell was that? 

Max:  How could you tell Kadijah and not me? 

Shayla:  Trust me, Max. I had my reasons. 

Max:  Like what? 

Shayla:  Look. I don't have to tell you. 

Max:  Why? What, you didn't think I could handle having a roommate that was gay? 

Shayla:  No. I didn't think you could handle having a roommate who was in love with you. 

[audience laughs and woos]

[audience laughs uproariously]

Glen:  We go to commercial break. 

Drew:  A very quick commercial break, and when they come back they're still in the same places. Her reaction to it is she's not being mean. She's very vulnerable, and she's very confused, and she's just struggling for words. And actually, that was the point in the episode where I was like, "Oh. You're a really good actress because you weren't in mean, catty, zinger mode anymore." 

Glen:  Yeah. She does lost-for-words better than a lot of sitcom actors that do the bumbling "Oh, my god. Oh, my god." 

Max:  Now—now wait a minute, now. You were what? You felt what? You said what? 

[audience laughs] 

Shayla:  See? I knew you couldn't handle it. 

Max:  [stammers] I'm handling. What? Wait. Uh—how long have you been in the—you know—felt that way about me? 

Dr. Justin:  And it's important, because I think that delivery of that particular moment has to be delicate, and it's believable, I think, throughout the whole episode. So all those awkward moments and all those moments where, again, it could have easily just flown into homophobia and that being the theme of the episode. Instead, it's more about acceptance of your friend. And ultimately, that's what it should be about. You should be supportive to your friend, and the reason that she was so vulnerable is because she felt like she was missing out on all these things that she should have known about her friend. 

Drew:  Right. I think it comes up a little bit later how she's sad that she missed out on bagging on all of Shayla's girlfriends. She would have ripped on them if she had the chance, and she feels bad that that was something she never had access to. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. So she's acting out not because of her best friend being gay; it's more about the fact that she never knew. 

Drew:  It's interesting. So we've done almost 30 episodes of this show, and we've dealt with so many reactions to straight people being uncomfortable around there suddenly being a gay person there and then not knowing how to react. Her reaction is different because what Max says to her is, "Well, you knew I was straight, right?" And Shayla's like—

Shayla:  When we first met in the dorm and you introduced yourself as "Max the Maverick," I didn't know what to make of you. Then, before I knew it, we were best friends. And then I realized I was in trouble. 

Max:  There's got to be a beer in here somewhere. 

[audience laughs] 

Shayla:  I mean, there I was, in the backseat of Dexter Findley's Firebird, wondering, "What kind of person has sex with sunglasses on?" and I realized I'd rather be with you. 

Max:  But you knew I was straight, right? 

Shayla:  Well, I did wonder. Every time you'd rant about how men were like snorting warthogs without the charm.

[audience laughs] 

Max:  It was those volleyball shorts I used to wear, wasn't it? 

[audience laughs] 

Shayla:  It was a lot of things, Max. I mean, you're an incredible woman, and for years I kept comparing you to everybody I met. And then when Chris came along, I realized I stopped comparing. I realized she was the one. 

Drew:  She does not have a big reaction. She doesn't really react at all. She gets very quiet, and her lines are very controlled, and she kind of seems like she's having a reflective, contemplative reaction to the news that, like, "Oh. Okay. I seem kind of gay. Hmm." It's a different interaction than I think we've seen on any other episode before. 

Glen:  Yeah. Max's reaction in this episode has entirely been from a place of personal hurt and not politics or a moral argument or even discomfort. I never once believe that she is uncomfortable with lesbians. 

Dr. Justin:  Right. Right. 

Drew:  Right, even though this might be how it is supposed to be coming off to some of the characters on the show necessarily—I don't know. We understand where she's coming from, also, because we've watched a lot of these episodes at this point. And then she kind of gets it, and then she goes into this "I don't even know if I'm going to go to the wedding." 

Max:  Well, I'm very glad you found someone you can be yourself around. Of course, I am assuming she knows you're gay. I'm sure it'll be a beautiful ceremony. 

Shayla:  Wait. You're going to be there, right? 

Max:  Well, gee. I don't know, Shay. I mean, what would people think? Everyone whispering about the 'other woman.'

[audience awkwardly murmur-laughs]

Shayla:  Fine, Max. Don't come. The reception hall doesn't allow children, anyway. 

[audience murmurs]

Shayla:  And by the way, those volleyball shorts? They weren't all that. 

[audience laughs and applauds]

Drew:  That's a sucky thing to say. Shayla's reaction is like, "Well, maybe you shouldn't. The wedding hall doesn't accept children, anyway." Is that a thing? Can you have a wedding reception at a place where kids are not allowed? 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah, or you can decide not to have kids. Some people—I've been to weddings where they were like, "No kids." 

Drew:  That sounds great. 

Glen:  It's like heaven. 

Drew:  Yeah. That means that you can get as drunk as you want, and you're not going to—

Glen:  You would not have been stopped. 

Drew:  [laughs]

Dr. Justin:  Well, I think it takes—I like kids, so I'm like whatever, you know? If you want to have a cute moment and dance on the dance floor and have fun at the kids' table for a little bit, that's fine. I don't mind. I don't think they take away too much from the whole experience of a wedding. But I also understand the people that make a decision to have a wedding without children for that particular reason where you can cut loose and get drunk and—

Glen:  Just kick at the ground and not worry about short people down there. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. Get someone else to babysit. Like, no. It's a wedding. No disruptions. No interference. No crying babies. 

Drew:  Children freak me out. 

Dr. Justin:  Really? 

Drew:  Yeah. They're like little—they're like people, but they're small, and they see everything. And I'm worried that someday I'm going to say something in front of them that they're going to be like, "Oh, what is death?" and I'm like, "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say that in front of you, small child. Go ask your mom." I don't think I've ever been to a child-free wedding. There's a hotel in Palm Springs I really like, and one of their policies is 21 and up—not because it's sexy or anything. They just don't want kids there. 

Glen:  But it also is sexy. 

Dr. Justin:  Right [laughs].

Drew:  It's fine. It's—yeah. Something about the idea that I will not run into a child there I find to be very comforting. But that's just me. I have some problems. Shayla leaves. Max goes into the living room and reveals the big news to everyone, and they're all very interested in the fact that Kadijah did not know, because she reacts the same way that Regine and Synclaire—they're very surprised. 

Glen:  Glasses dropped. 

Dr. Justin:  Yes. 

Max:  Well, you will not believe what Shayla told me in the kitchen. 

Regine:  Oh, Lord. Not more whining about the college roommate. 

Max:  Seems in college she was madly in love with me. 

Kadijah:  No, girl. When did—

[various crashing noises and a general cacophany ensues]

Regine:  Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What the hell does she see in you? 

Drew:  They're like, "Oh. Okay. We all want to talk about it." 

Dr. Justin:  Everybody's shocked. 

Drew:  And I think it's Kadijah who has the very good point—she's like, "Did she ever hit on you the entire time you guys were living together?" And Max is like, "No," and she's like, "That is how much your friendship meant to her, that she had those feelings and she did not act on them because she knew it would fuck up their friendship, and she'd rather be friends with you than be with you." 

Glen:  And then Max gets the best line—ever. 

Max:  Don't make me go back and rethink this. I've already come up with a bitterness I feel very comfortable with.

[audience laughs] 

Glen:  Which I just want to put on a t-shirt and wear every day. 

Drew:  "A bitterness you feel very comfortable with"? 

Glen:  Yes. 

Dr. Justin:  That is a good one. 

Drew:  She's like, "Fuck. I got to go sort this out," and she leaves. And then it cuts to the resolution of the Overton and Kyle plotline, but I don't actually understand what it is. 

Dr. Justin:  Which I'm so bored by.

Drew:  They seemed gay for a second, and that ties into the A-plot, and I'm okay with that. I guess you have to have another note where they finish it up, but I don't actually understand what happened. 

Glen:  So what happened is that Overton made up fake business cards that say the tailor that Kyle shared with him—

Drew:  Mr. Infamy—or Mr. Infume? 

Glen:  Infume. 

Drew:  It is Infume, okay. 

Glen:  It's Infume—that Mr. Infume is advertising the cut of his lapels. 

Dr. Justin:  The Kyle Barker Lapel. 

Glen:  Yes. And so he's very excited about this, gets very into the design, and there is a tag on the end of the episode with the runway. 

Drew:  That makes sense. Okay. 

Dr. Justin:  That's right. That's right. 

Glen:  Which is a fantasy. It's not a real thing. 

Drew:  But he thinks that Mr. Infume wants to go into business with him. That is a very short-term solution. He's going to very quickly find, like, "No. I don't want to go into business with you." 

Glen:  Yeah, but the universe will reset next episode. It's fine. 

Drew:  But then we are in the final scene, which is Shayla getting her hair done at a hair place called the Coiffe Drop—it's like coif with an extra F-E at the end. It's very subtle. You see it on the smock she's wearing. That's kind of—

Glen:  That's terrible. 

Drew:  That's kind of a pun that makes sense, almost, but not really.

Dr. Justin:  So terrible. 

Glen:  I hate it. 

Dr. Justin:  Not their best. Not their best writing. 

Drew:  Max goes in guns a-blazing because I think that's her only mode of—

Glen:  Not actually guns a-blazing. I feel like—

Dr. Justin:  Right. Let's be clear. In 2019, that could have been—

Drew:  That is metaphorical. And Shayla is like, "You cannot be mad at me for not telling you, and then also simultaneously be mad at me for telling you." 

Shayla:  Max. Taking your little humiliation tour on the road? 

Max:  All right. Look. We got to talk. 

Shayla:  Can it wait until I'm back under the dryer? 

Hairdresser:  Ladies, I can't treat with this kind of tension. I'll go fluff the other bride. 

[audience laughs] 

Max:  Look, come on. This whole thing just took me by surprise. 

Shayla:  Max, you can't have it both ways. You can't be mad at me for not telling you and then mad at me because I did. 

Max:  Well, how'd you expect me to react when you told me how you felt? 

Shayla:  How do you think I felt when I told you and you looked at me like I said I was sleeping with Rush Limbaugh? 

Drew:  I like the conversation they have, but my favorite part is when Shayla says, "How do you think it feels to give information like that and have your friend look at you like you just said that you're having sex with Rush Limbaugh?" And as she says this, Shayla walks across the room, and Max follows her. It's not a joke line because the audience doesn't laugh at it because they're laughing at something else, but she says— 

Shayla:  When you looked at me like I said I was sleeping with Rush Limbaugh?

[audience laughs] 

Max:  That's just sick. This is just going to take me a little time. 

Drew:  —"That's just sick," and then goes into the next thing. And I was like, "Oh. What an interesting—[laughs]. The idea of having sex with Rush Limbaugh is just sick, and that's not even a joke on this show. 

Dr. Justin:  Right [laughs]. Full stop. 

Glen:  And it's still timely today, which is horrible. 

Drew:  Can you believe that he's still alive? Like—ugh. 

Glen:  The genie lied to me. 

Drew:  Yeah. 

Dr. Justin:  [laughs]

Glen:  Well, my—I guess it's not right after, it's soon after. My favorite part is, I guess, ultimately, the resolution of this conversation with Max just comes back and says—

Max:  Girl, look [sighs]. Maybe if you would have confessed all this back in school, maybe I would have freaked. But the point is, I wish you would have given me the chance to rise to the occasion. 

Shayla:  Yeah. I guess you're right. If we had talked about it back then, maybe I wouldn't have gotten such a crappy shower gift from you. 

[audience laughs] 

Glen:  —"Maybe I would have reacted poorly in the moment, but we won't know. And I wish that you had given me the chance to rise to the occasion." 

Drew:  Oh. See, that is not my interpretation of it. My interpretation—I'll go back and cut it in because I could be entirely wrong, but I thought she was saying, "Well, you didn't tell me back in the day, and I might have freaked out if you had told me," but the fact that she didn't tell her back then meant that they stayed friends and they had that continued relationship. So Max was feeling—she was okay with being told under these circumstances at long last. That was my interpretation, but I could be wrong. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, no. No. 

Glen:  No. No, no, no. You are wrong. 

Dr. Justin:  Uh-uh. I think, yeah, that's wrong. 

Glen:  Yeah. You're very wrong. 

Dr. Justin:  You're wrong. Glen is right. 

Glen:  Yep. 

Drew:  Okay. 

Dr. Justin:  I mean, you were right about a lot of stuff in this episode. But—yeah. 

Glen:  Yeah. No, she was saying, "I could have freaked out. Maybe it would have gone poorly. But I could have also surprised both of us by being a big person." 

Drew:  Interesting. Okay. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. "You're one of my best friends. You can tell me anything."

Drew:  Mm-hmm. That's good. That's a nice ending. And this is when they have the conversation about, "I could have bagged on all your girlfriends." And there's a weird fat joke in there that wouldn't happen today. 

Max:  I can imagine some of the heifers you must have gone out with. 

Shayla:  Only one heifer, and she didn't start out that way. She just had this thing for comfort food. 

[audience laughs] 

Drew:  That is one of the only parts that would be cut out if this was an episode that would be happening in 2019. 

Glen:  I would also cut out the turkey baster joke. 

Drew:  Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. 

Dr. Justin:  When was the turkey baster joke? 

Drew:  It's right around here, right? 

Glen:  No. It was earlier. It was when the "Welcome, lesbians!" sign was happening. Someone makes a turkey—oh, Max makes a turkey baster baby joke. It was the only joke where I was like, "Mm. No. Please go away." 

Dr. Justin:  I feel like I missed that. 

Drew:  It ends with the double prank, which is kind of cute. They have to wrap it up some way, but—

Max:  By the way, is there a reason why your dreads are so fuzzy in the front? 

Shayla:  Fuzzy?

Max:  Heh! You always were an easy mark. 

Shayla:  You always were a pain in the ass [characters laugh]. 

Chris:  I knew it! You haven't gotten her out of your system! We're through. 

Max:  Oh, no, no, no. You know I don't like her like that. Now, come here. 

[audience laughs] 

Shayla:  Now who were you calling an easy mark? 

[audience laughs] 

Dr. Justin:  It's cute. 

Glen:  Well also, the prank element of their friendship just never stuck for me because Max—

Dr. Justin:  I mean, it was a heavy episode with a lot going on. 

Glen:  Yeah, and also because Max's it's not like Max's first reaction when she shows up with a lesbian bride was "Oh, is this another prank?" 

Drew:  If the prank thing had been [01:11:40] 

Dr. Justin:  They said something before she found out that Chris was a woman, but I can't remember what the little entry when they first—

Glen:  Oh, when she was like, "Is it going to be one of my exes?" 

Drew:  Right. Right, when she's like, "There's something I probably should have told you before now." 

Dr. Justin:  Oh, that's right. Yeah. But even their little greeting when they said hello was some little cutting remark or something. 

Glen:  "I like 666 on your forehead—"

Dr. Justin:  Oh, yeah—which was also weird. I was like, "What?" [laughs]

Drew:  They can't all be perfect zingers. There's enough good zingers that—

Dr. Justin:  When there are so many—the pacing and just the general comedy. Living Single still holds up pretty well. 

Drew:  I was saying offline before we started that it was nice to watch a show that gave me all the feelings of a familiar '90s sitcom. It is one I basically hadn't seen before and can plow through five seasons of. You guys are right. We're never forced to think that Max is homophobic, just that she had her feelings hurt, and that's one of the better ways to handle this sort of situation. It hasn't really been handled on any other show that way. 

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. 

Drew:  And then there's the end credits with the—

Glen:  We don't need to talk about that. 

Drew:  No. Not very good. 

Glen:  Unless you have—

Dr. Justin:  No. Again, I was bored by that storyline, so now I'm over it. 

Drew:  Any final thoughts about Living Single, Justin? 

Dr. Justin:  I'm glad I got to revisit it. It really is a great show, and I love the little story about the fact that it was what Friends ripped off. So I will forever now think of Friends as the white Living Single. 

Drew:  Yep. 

Dr. Justin:  I think that's the take home. Every listener needs to realize that. 

Glen:  Totally stopped listening a while ago. 

Dr. Justin:  Rude. 

Drew:  I don't think—they usually don't, actually, because we can see metrics for people. If they stop listening, they stop listening in the first three or four minutes. 

Dr. Justin:  Early. Yeah. 

Drew:  And if they get past that, they usually stay almost until the end. So they're probably still—

Glen:  Hello. 

Drew:  Hi. Thank you for listening. 

Dr. Justin:  Thank you for listening. 

Drew:  There is another gay episode. There's an episode called "Swing Out Sisters" where the four of them go to a gay bar, and it is also interesting. Basically, Queen Latifah has an interaction with a trans woman, and it's kind of progressive. 

Glen:  Should we do that episode next season? 

Drew:  I would like to do that episode next season. 

Glen:  Well, then, stop talking about it. 

Drew:  That didn't spoil anything. 

Glen:  Spoiled it for me. 

Dr. Justin:  And there we go. I'd be curious to see how they handle that progressively as well. I now want to go back and see who wrote this episode and all those details therein and give Living Single another revisit and watch from the beginning. 

Glen:  It's on Hulu. 

Drew:  It's on Hulu in the entirety.

Dr. Justin:  Yeah. That's where I watched this episode. 

Drew:  And at the end of that James Cordon interview with Queen Latifah and Laverne Cox, Laverne Cox says—

Laverne Cox:  "Queen Latifah's everything. Is anybody going back right now to Living Single and the full—"

Queen Latifah:  Feel free to watch us. Watch Living Single. Catch up. 

Laverne Cox:  If you don't know Living Single, you need to get your education. 

Drew:  Glen. Closing thoughts? 

Glen:  [makes mouth noises]

Drew:  I'm going to edit that out.

Glen:  No. No. 

Dr. Justin:  Keep it. 

Glen:  I have already proven you wrong once this episode. That's what I want to end on. 

Drew:  Okay. That sounds fair. Dr. Justin, if people want to find you online, where is the easiest place for them to find you? 

Dr. Justin:  They can find me on Instagram and Twitter @YoungDocJustin, and they can see my short film That's Me on the Right at thatsmeontheright.com or on Vimeo. 

Drew:  We'll put a link in the show notes so people can find it. 

Dr. Justin:  Thank you. 

Drew:  You can find me on Twitter @DrewGMackie—M-A-C-K-I-E. Glen? 

Glen:  I'm very tired. Do it for me. 

Drew:  You can find Glen on Twitter @IWriteWrongs—that's "write" with a W—and  Glen is on Instagram @BrosQuartz—B-R-O-S-Q-U-A-R-T-Z. Yes, that is a Steven Universe reference. 

Glen:  Thank you. 

Drew:  You can find this podcast on Twitter @GayestEpisode. We're on Facebook, and you can listen to all previous episodes at gayestepisodeever.com. As we mentioned earlier, we have a Patreon—patreon.com/gayestepisodeever. Please give us money. We like it. And this is a TableCakes podcast. If you want to listen to the other shows on the TableCakes network, please go to TableCakes.com. Okay. Anything else? I'm thinking—thinking—thinking. I think that's episode over, guys. 

Glen:  Bye forever. 

Dr. Justin:  Forever? 

Drew:  He says that every time. 

Dr. Justin:  Oh. 

Glen:  Thanks for coming. 

Dr. Justin:  Thanks for having me! This is great. 

["Tainted Love" by Gloria Jones plays]